Posted by: Robin Foster | November 15, 2007

Transparency and Principled Dissent?

I was hoping that I could ease into this blog thing again, but unfortunately I can’t. A very revealing conversation is going on at SBCOutpost. My good friend, Tim Rogers, has brought some interesting thoughts to the discussing. He was challenged by Paul Littleton and I thought I would add to the comments with this:

Tim

I suggest you reveal your source (if there is one) as soon as Wade or anyone else can name which trustees called Wade and specifically asked him to come on the BoT’s in order to fire Dr. Rankin.

Keep fighting the good fight.

The comment is being held in moderation while other people are commenting at will. Now we all know that Bro. Tim doesn’t need my help. I just thought with all this talk of transparency and principled dissent that my voice would be allowed on sbcoutpost. Well, apparently all that transparency and dissent is good for the IMB BoT’s, but when it comes to the people who yell those values, it don’t work when they are challenged. So, for this blog, until I am off the sbcoutpost moderation list and allowed to engage the discussion like everyone else, those people associated who run that site will be off limits from commenting on fromthehill.

I will add that I talked with CB Scott about this some time back and he said it was wrong of them to do this. So CB, you are more than welcomed here even if you do call me gutless just to get me riled up from time to time. 🙂

UPDATE: Hats off to SBC Outpost, they have released my comment from moderation. I wonder who had to make that executive decision?  But a question of transparency is still on the table.  Will the names of the trustees who allegedly asked Wade to come on board to fire Rankin be given or will all the trustees be suspect to this accusation?

Just when I think I am done with it, they drag me back in. Yes folks, I am back!

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Responses

  1. Robin,

    Don’t feel like the Long Ranger. Your Good Friend Wes Kenney has had my comments held in moderation while other people are commenting at will and they still are held by Wes. I don’t know why Wes would be afraid of me.

    In His Name

  2. Wayne

    I am sure that Wes has his reason for doing so, just like SBC Outpost has for me. I guess that it was my comments when Ben started showing numbers and figures about some of our entity heads, but failed to show the salary and benefits of Dr. Chapman and his staff. To my knowledge, those numbers have not been revealed. Again, transparency and dissent is not allowed at SBC Outpost.

    Why are they not calling for transparency at the executive committee level?

  3. Wayne

    I almost forgot, you are correct on one point. Wes is my good friend.

    God Bless

  4. Here is my response to Alan cross concerning the comment I left. Again, my words are awaiting moderation.

    Alan

    First, if you can show me where Tim said Wade lied, I am all eyes.

    Second, I thought Tim was fighting the same good fight of Wade and others: Transparency? Is that not what you guys desire?

    So here is my deal, either tell us who all the trustees were who talked to Wade about coming on the board to fire Dr. Rankin or drop the issue. Simple! As soon as those conversations have been verified, then I propose to Tim to tell us if his source was real and who he or she was.

    I sure hope it doesn’t take another hour to have this one posted.

    Have a nice evening. 🙂

  5. Robin,

    Welcome back!

    Please do not hold your breath waiting for either of the following:

    1. An answer to your question.
    2. Any equitable right of “dissent”.

    Ron P.

  6. Robin,

    I went over and read the comments that you are referring to…

    Let me change #1 above. Don’t wait for the “whole” truth. But, as we have seen from the kool aid drinkers, truth is in the eye of the beholder.

    There are too many holes that You, Tim, Peter and others have pointed out in Wade’s various stories that do not add up. And of course, there is no answers to those questions, just personal acerbic attacks from the “irenic” ones.

    This whole episode comes across as an orchestrated narcissistic plan to be “self martyred” (with apologies to the real martyrs) in his cause to magnify himself.

    Ron P.

  7. Ron

    Dude, seriously, we are up too late. 🙂

    Time to go to bed.

  8. Robin,

    It’s work keeping me up, not the blogs. 🙂

    Ron P.

  9. Good morning boys and girls – Robin I was just over at the outpost – your comments are all up there this morning.

    I will agree on one point – unless a poster is abusive, his or her comments should appear. Being a contrarian myself, I like to see all sides of an argument. I have appreciated Peter for allowing all comers and would hope that both Wade and the outpost would do the same. In my opinion back when Jeremy Green was active, he was less than courageous by not allowing any comments on his blog. Bloggers that block good honest dissent come very close to the JLG line.

    Jim

  10. Robin,

    GOOOOOOOOD MORNING, PERKINS, OK!! How’s the day starting for those up past 2am???

    It’s good to see the good fight engaged again. Please don’t tell me my friends in the BGCO faux irenism front are being less than equitable or forthright (*shock*).

    HAPPY CENTENNIAL DAY, TOO!

    SOLA GRATIA!

  11. Welcome back, Robin.

    Just to let you know, I had both of my comments held in moderation last night. The first one for over an hour until I called Paul Littleton to ask why. He said that they had installed some key words to keep people from pretending to be someone else and when those words were inserted in a post, the comment went to moderation. Unknowingly, I used one of those words. When my next comment went into moderation, I figured that I had done it again but by that time I didn’t care anymore so I went to bed. By the morning, both posts were up.

    You assume way too much. I just thought you’d like to know that you weren’t the only one who was being delayed in engaging in the discussion last night. Sorry to burst the conspiracy bubble.

  12. And, I now see that my comment is awaiting moderation even though I am not one of the editors at Outpost and haven’t posted over there in over 3 months. Wow.

    Is this just a glitch or is it happening to everyone?

  13. Robin,

    I posted your comments, and it was probably a mistake. I wasn’t the one who put you in moderation and I probably shouldn’t be the one to take you out. That’s especially true given the incredible irony that you have persistently moderated my own comments here and now you whine about being moderated at the Outpost. Go figure.

    By the way, being moderated at the Outpost is not stifling principled dissent. That you have this blog, that you are free to post on it, that no one is censuring you for doing so, that no one has asked you to stop are all evidence that you are free to dissent till your heart’s content. However, you’ve never been elected to serve on anything at the Outpost and there are no given rules for your participation there other than the ones we have created. Sort of like the rules you create for yourself here. Imagine that. Whether you will be allowed to participate there in the future may depend upon the urim and thumim. We’ll just have to see how the rocks land.

  14. HAHAHAHAHAHA!! This little tidbit is a real jewel: “Your comment is awaiting moderation.” Oh the irony!!

    Robin, you crack me up!

  15. Something being lost in all this righteous indignation about who violated board policy in order to tell Tim what he knows is this little gem from Wade’s blog post of yesterday:

    I give absolute, unconditional and irrevocable permission for any and all relevant information related to the censure to be made available to anyone who asks. This is not a sensitive issue.

    Seems to me that Tim’s introduction of a little truth into the debate turned the issue sensitive real quick. Interesting, no?

  16. hey robin, my old friend, good to see you back. i too have had many comments moderated, and or deleted at wade’s blog and at the outpost and at ben’s blog and at the founders blog. i have never understood the whole moderating and deleting thing. if someone says something that you dont like, then deal with the issue. why just delete it? that almost sounds like the person is afraid of the statement that’s made…that they cant handle the truth of what that person is saying.

    anyway, good to have you back.

    cheeseburgers,
    david

  17. Wes,

    It appears that Tim was telling a whole lot less of the truth than he thought.

    Interesting, no?

  18. “Seems to me that Tim’s introduction of a little truth into the debate turned the issue sensitive real quick. Interesting, no?”

    What’s interesting, Wes, is that you will believe just about anything negative about Wade, including the idea that he is lying. If he is, then we all need to know so that we can all condemn it and move on. I’ll join you in that. But, don’t just throw stuff like that around because you have a tip from the IMB BoT or someone that they leaked to. Apparently, Tim wasn’t introducing truth at all. This conversation has continued at the Outpost and it appears that Tim’s source isn’t as accurate as you would like. The fact that you guys are so quick to jump on Wade over just about anything that anyone says makes it hard to take you seriously in your disagreements over the substance of what he is talking about. It really comes across as you just think that Wade is a no good, dirty rotten liar. If that is the case, then will someone please prove it?

    I never doubted Tim. I like Tim and I respect him. I doubted his source and I think he got used. I’ve had people try to use me in this whole thing by sliding me information before. No thanks. We can disagree, but let’s at least keep the dialogue open by taking each other’s words at face value unless it is proven that we should not.

  19. I wish I were an Oscar Meyer wiener, that is what I’d truly like to beeeeeee,
    and if I were an Oscar Meyer wiener, everyone would be in love with me. selahV

  20. Robin, I’m glad you’re posting again, sorry to hear the devil made you do it. JK….selahV

  21. Dear Alan and Paul

    I have not picked on you guys. All comments to this blog are moderated. I believe Les Puryear and Ben Cole have the same policy on their blogs. BTW, some months ago when I tried to carry on a dialog with sbcoutpost my comments were held in moderation and did not see the light of day. So Alan, there may have been a glitch last night, but the issue with my comments have been going on for some time now.

    Paul, as to why I moderate my comments, some bloggers have commented using words that should not be in the Christian vocabulary. Others have gone off subject and tried to hijack the post. BTW, allowing your comment to stand even though I am moderated at outpost, I hope would be seen as an olive branch of friendship.

    However any of you guys see it is fine. The outpost or your personal blogs have the right to moderate comments. If you want to moderate particularly mine, then that is fine. Just don’t advertise the need for transparency while you do it.

  22. Alan

    Show where Tim called Wade a liar. This is what he said:

    “I have not said that Brother Wade is not telling the truth.”

    It seems that you guys are so much for Wade that whatever he says is gospel to you. The details of a resignation, if there was one, is again between those who dealt with Wade and Wade himself. Don’t be too quick to make judgment without knowing the whole story.

    BTW, I am still waiting for the names of the trustees who asked Wade to come on board in order to fire Dr. Rankin. Should we consider that incident as true if no names are presented?

  23. Tim Rogers Says:
    November 15th, 2007 at 6:36 pm Brother Jeff,

    I believe if you investigate the facts you will find that Brother Wade offered to resign and the offer was received well, by telling him to place it in writing what he was willing to do. After that he said he would like to re-think his position and removed himself from the conversation. Once he returned the paper he was given to write his resignation on was crinkled into a wad. Of course, I have it on good authority that if he were to present his resignation he is free to email it to the Chairman at anytime.

    Here is the reality of the situation. Brother Wade is blowing smoke about resigning. He has never been serious about resigning he is just using it to further his cause. His cause is to get as many as he can to be sympathetic to his plight. You are drinking the kool-aide without questions. This is not about dissent, it is about him getting his way. There is no vision of reform, it is only a vision of replacing Paige Patterson and everyone connected to him.

    Blessings,

    I guess saying someone is blowing smoke is different from lying – but I am not sure how much

    Jim

  24. robin,

    i too would like to know the names of the trustees who asked wade to come on board to rid the imb of dr. rankin. who are they?

    also, alan, you talk about the way robin and some others treat wade. do you want to talk about being direspected and treated bad and talked down to like a smelly dog…how about all the times that i was treated like dirt by wade’s followers and by ben and the outpost crowd? i mean, they jumped on me like a mad, old man who was just cheated out of his senior discount at mcdonalds. also, robin was treated this way as well….as have many others that the anti establishment crowd does not like. now, aint that the truth?!? yes, it is. in fact, i dont comment on wade’s blog, nor on the outpost, nor on several other blogs anymore cuz i got tired of being treated like i was a dim witted idiot that they couldnt stand to be around. i was treated very rudely and in a very mean and viscious way. i got tired of it. so did robin. so did many others.

    david

  25. Robin,

    On about 4 separate occasions in the comment stream on Outpost, Tim said that Wade’s version of the story was not what really happened and he was contradicting it with the real story. I actually cut and pasted them into a response to you over there but it did not post and it was lost. Another glitch, I guess. Here are the examples that I was thinking of:

    “Here is the reality of the situation. Brother Wade is blowing smoke about resigning. He has never been serious about resigning he is just using it to further his cause. His cause is to get as many as he can to be sympathetic to his plight.”

    “Are you sure that your resignation was rejected? Or did you decide not to write down an offer to resign. Which was it?”

    “The issue is that Brother Wade has said he placed an offer to resign before trustee leadership along with a high ranking administrator and that offer was refused. I say he did not receive a refusal of that offer. He withdrew that offer and he has said they refused it. The issue is that Brother Wade has told that story to add to his argument that the IMB is trying to shut down dissent.”

    “I have not said that Brother Wade is not telling the truth. I have said that he is not telling the whole truth. Better yet, he is telling his version of the truth which leaves out vital information that allows all to see that he is not the martyr for the cause he seems to desire all to think he is.”

    As far as Wade’s story about the IMB trustees, you should ask him. I have no idea, but considering everything else that has happened, I have no reason to doubt that. Unless Wade is lying. Is he?

  26. I believe the concept “divide and conqueror” is at work here. The insiders now have control. The horrible outsiders were cast out. Therefore, the pure insiders ought to be pure and spreading the gospel like NT churches … right? By pure I mean having a right (daily) relationship with the Lord.

    What is happening, as I see it, we are shooting the saints (ourselves) … in fact … we are not even taking prisoners. Even in the conservative ranks there seems to be no reconciliation. Where is confession and forgiveness when you need it.

    Just think grown men of God calling each other liars. It is a shame and disgrace. I pray Almighty God will raise up other groups that will take the place of Southern Baptist. We had the opportunity to be special and on mission with the Lord. My brothers and sisters we have fumble the gospel … shamefully!

    A liberal is one who does not agree or abide with the power structure. The insider speaks for God … evidently they are the only ones The Lords speaks to. Believe it or not but I do know what “sound” doctrine is intended to mean.

    If we can just get ride of Wade B. and a host of others … God will bless and the kingdom will move forward. Or, if they will be submissive (just like women and laymen). A pipe dream is forming … we will send 8,000 to the foreign lands. Not with this negative attitude.

    It been a long time since I have been to the SBC funny farm … doesn’t seem to me much has changed. Southern Sem was liberal (far, far, to the left) and now is it safe to say that Southern is conservative (far, far, far, far, far to the right)?

    Just pondering and wondering??????

    Troy

  27. You are welcome to my space. Any comment that is Christlike will be accepted.

    Troy

  28. I did not know you folks had selective reading and comments on your blogs. It sounds like a good-ole-boy system to me.

    I do not do moderation. I will leave that up to your blogging pros.

    Troy

  29. Troy

    It is not my desire or anyone else’s desire that I know of to get rid of Wade.

    BTW, check out my previous comments as to why I moderate the comments.


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